Catholicism in East Asia

Catholic Frequency: Welcome to episode 48 of the Catholic Frequency podcast. Today, we talk to Jakub from the ex social media account Catholicism in East Asia, a very fascinating account with almost 30,000 followers. And we start off our conversation by asking him, what made you wanna get on the social media platform x and start posting about the faith in this part of the world?

Catholicism in East Asia: Really, this was a, long standing interest of mine. And what really struck me was there was no account that was doing essentially what I was doing. There have been accounts larger Catholic accounts that do post about, let's say, like, a a a Catholic, you know, piece of art from from Japan or China or a church or or something along those lines. But there was a sort of absence in that, in in that in that niche, which I wanted to fill. But I have to I have to give a a big, big shout out to, one specific account, Indo Christian culture.

They are not a exclusively Catholic account, but they do include Catholic content. They really inspired me with the idea to have just, like, an account dedicated to posting about this topic. And they did help me in my very early days to to get sort of, like, a a a jump start. So I'm very grateful to them for the idea and for the for the, the very beginnings of the account.

Catholic Frequency: What is your favorite, thing to post on this account? Is it, like, historical stories, like some of the some of the martyrs? Is it just the artwork from the different cultures? What what's what do you like to share the most?

Catholicism in East Asia: I think, my favorite thing to post is honestly I do like the artwork, and I know that people do also very much enjoy the artwork. But, I I get the most, I guess, satisfaction out of posting about, just, like, more in-depth stories about about the, church in Asia, because it is it is a very it is a criminally undercovered subject, and a lot of really, really incredible stories are just out there, and most Catholics aren't aware. Like, I I'm I'm I'm currently reading through, the journals of Matteo Ricci, Jesuit priest Italian Jesuit priest who sort of pioneered the the mission in China, back in the late fifteen hundreds. And every single page is filled with so much fascinating information. So I really do enjoy those posts where I get to dig into that that sort of that sort of stuff.

The yeah.

Catholic Frequency: So when your when your your account's about East Asia, so we're talking about China, Japan, what other countries would would fall into that sphere of being East Asia versus a little further West?

Catholicism in East Asia: The the countries that I I just, like, take this very specific definition of East Asia in order to not, overextend myself because there's so much information about Catholicism in Vietnam and in The Philippines. But, I I limit myself to, what's conventionally considered East Asia, which is, mostly just, China, Korea, Japan, Tibet, and Mongolia. It's sort of I I guess an alternative term for it would be, Northeast Asia, but that is generally the the the area of focus for me.

Catholic Frequency: Now you have a website. Right? Church in Asia. And what's what's the mission of the website? How is that different than what you're doing on x?

Catholicism in East Asia: The website is sort of supplementary. The the the purpose of it is because, you know, x or Twitter, whatever you wanna call it, it's a very specific format. It's it's tweets which are usually short form and and and, you know, sometimes there's threads, but it is very, very flashy, very it catches your attention quickly. And there's some there there's some resources that I have that really don't fit onto Twitter, just like sharing websites or, like, like, academic articles or pages that are that I that I think are relevant if you do want to, research this for yourself. There's also it's something that I'm working on.

You know? I I I've been rather busy the the past couple of years, with, like, schoolwork, but the idea was to also host a bunch of, images of churches and statues and and holy images on the website. And that's something that I've done a little bit of, but that that is something in the future, would like to host more. Ideally, at some point, I would like to host my own, photographs when I get the opportunity to take them. But, also, the the the the other, function of the website is and, you know, I'm I'm not a person who who, you know, pushes this very hard, but part of the function is to have, sort of like a a place you can oh, right.

A place where you can both buy the the the the books that I'm putting back into print and also a place where you can read those books for free.

Catholic Frequency: You mentioned that the church in Asia is, I think you said, criminally underreported. Why do you think that is?

Catholicism in East Asia: I think it's principally because, well, I I need to make something clear in the sense that I'm mostly talking about English language sources, because I I I am currently studying Japanese, but I I do not have nearly good enough proficiency in that to read, academic sources. So in the English sphere, it's just I think the reason why it's underreported is because it's a combination of both Catholics not really being aware of the situation in in East Asia. A lot of Catholic express, you know, surprise that there are any Christians at all in some of these countries. And a secondary factor would be that if you just look, like, at the demographics of, historians, these are people who generally, not all of them, but hold certain views and certain interests. And, you know, with an increasingly secular world, unfortunately, there's a lot less interest in these types of topics as opposed to, you know, a couple hundred years ago where this was a very central, very important part of academia.

Catholic Frequency: I think too just for the general public, you know, Americans, you know, there's not a lot of news on on American television about what's going on around the world in many in many countries. It's just we're kinda focused inward, a lot of times. I think you're right that that most Catholics are are unaware of this rich history. If you had the chance, let's just say you went to some parish, you know, dinner or something, and somebody asked you, you know, just just in a minute or two, where would you start to to sort of share with people this this rich history? What would you say?

What what part in history or what particular martyr where would you start?

Catholicism in East Asia: I think I think a lot of the, I think I would start with, which is is is a, maybe an obvious starting point, but I I I think Francis Saint Francis Xavier would be the starting point. I know that the history of Christianity is much older in Asia than Saint Francis Xavier. We had the sort of, church of the east present in China, over a thousand years ago. But I think I would start with Saint Francis Xavier because that was the start of what I would consider the sort of modern mission, Catholic mission in China and Japan. The thing with Korea is, Korea's, sort of the the the initial conversion was, very lay driven.

So in a sense, it it sprouted from those Jesuit efforts initial in in China and Japan. But I I think I'd start with Saint Francis Xavier because it's really incredible just how much he accomplished in his, short life and, how much of that how much of, foundation he laid for for further missions.

Catholic Frequency: What would you say is the state of the Catholic church today, like, in in in this place like China? You know, we see we do see a little bit on the news that, I guess, the China has to approve bishops and stuff like that. But what what is in your from your understanding, the health of the church there?

Catholicism in East Asia: It's a I would say it's a complex matter. It it is the the the church has to balance simultaneously the sort of, staying true to its independence while also balancing the needs of Chinese Catholics. That is something it's it's it's a very controversial matter, and I I I completely understand a lot of the the the sides of it, which is why I I try to not speak too decisively on it on my account. But the the sort of situation essentially is that the government wishes to have control over the the church to a certain extent. There's the the idea of having the church be patriotic, which in of itself isn't necessarily completely negative, but, that comes into conflict sometimes with the interests of the Vatican, in the sense of the it's it's really a very, very old problem in in very modern sort of clothing.

It is similar to the sort of infestiture controversies, of the medieval period where the, the CCPA, the the the Patriotic Association, and the and the government, they want to appoint certain clerics to the position of of bishop or or a prelate. And sometimes that conflicts with what the Vatican wants, and sometimes that, that that that is done without the supervision of the Vatican. And so what the 2018 deal was supposed to be was a sort of normalization, a a sort of because the the truth of the matter is, you know, there is the underground church. There is the CCPA approved church, But it's not like the CCPA approved church is, you know, there's a lot of good faithful Catholics in that church. A lot of Catholics that do not have to, necessarily have any sort of, like, grievance at all towards towards the the the papacy or or or the Vatican.

And the idea of the deal is just to, to sort of normalize that that relation to give sort of concessions. It's it's, and the question is, are those concessions too much? The question is, can the government be trusted with keeping the bounds of that relationship? And, the answer, sort of from what we've seen so far is, sometimes. There there have been certain violations, but it's it's a complicated matter because it's not just political posturing.

It's not just, you know as much as I have absolutely have sympathy for the people in the underground church, there are also a lot of Catholics who who rely on the the the state affiliated church for their sacraments and for their, sort of religious life.

Catholic Frequency: It's definitely very, very complex, and people sometimes will see it and say, oh, they shouldn't have done this and they should but but the pope and the bishops have a lot of things to consider. And like you're saying, the the spiritual well-being of the people being the first and and foremost. I put a link to your website, churchinasia.com, in the comments that people wanna pop over there. You have some beautiful images that people can download to put on their phone or computer. Some very beautiful, images of some churches from East Asia.

And lots of great resources here. I was just gonna ask, I don't know if you remember seeing this movie or if you did, but there was a movie, called Silence that was out about ten years ago. It was about, the the Jesuits who went to Japan. I think it was with, Andrew Garfield. Do you remember seeing that movie?

Or

Catholicism in East Asia: Yes. I went to see that movie way back when, when it first came out in theaters. That was that was before even I really had a strong interest in, Catholicism and East Asia. But that that that that yes. Yes.

I did see.

Catholic Frequency: I just just gonna ask you if if you had an opinion on it or if you thought it was a good ad adaptation or what what your thoughts were?

Catholicism in East Asia: It was a I've I have not read the the original book, Silence by, Shusaku Endo, but, it was a good movie in the sense that it portrayed the sort of the the the intense suffering that a lot of these these these Japanese martyrs had to go through. And the the sort of, I know there's mixed opinions about it in in in Catholic spheres, concerning that, you know, the the the the main character, maybe this is a little bit of a spoiler, but he he he does apostasize at the end of the movie. And it's sort of, like, seemingly, Jesus is sort of speaking to him, encouraging him to do that. And I I understand those concerns, but, nevertheless, I think it is in a worthwhile portrayal of of the the difficulty of the mission in Japan, especially in those later stages where the persecution was ramping up. That is something that I I've I've encountered often in in my in my research and even in just, like, personal thoughts on the state of the church in, East Asia is just this this perpetual sort of trying to sort of, the the the perpetual mission of the church and how much difficulties it encountered in these countries, how many times there was failure.

And sometimes, you know, we often say in, you know, in Catholic spheres and and so on, You know, the the the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church, and that's definitely true. But sometimes, you know, there isn't great success even after many brave souls give their their their, give their life for Christ. And that is something that that movie really touches upon is the the sort of, that that that we as Catholics have to be prepared for the fact that, you know, God works in a very, very long time span and immediate success is something that we can't really count on. You know, there there are cases where we have seen great success in the very early days of the missions, but, that movie sort of touches upon that difficulty, upon the difficulty of just introducing, the the the the gospel to nations that are very far away, very different from, you know, what the the the apostles, encountered. The movie is very beautiful, just, like, artistically speaking.

The the visuals are are really incredible. And though, yes, I'm also sort of conflicted about the ending that this is a sort of ambiguous, but, it it is it is a movie that I would say is worth watching. And compared to some other, you know, pop culture introductions to to to the church in Japan, it is probably on the better side.

Catholic Frequency: Yeah. Liam Neeson also in that particular film called Silence. I wanted to ask you about your you have a pinned post, talking about, a book, Two Japanese Christian Heroes. Tell us about that.

Catholicism in East Asia: Yes. That is a that is a project that sort of, spiraled out of its original bounds. I was trying to find a a book because, sometimes I I edit Wikipedia just, like, in my free time. And I was trying to get to the bottom of whether, you know, the these these circumstances of Hosokawa Gracia's death to see if it was actually a suicide or not. And so I am very blessed to live in the the the DC area, which means that I have access to the Library of Congress.

And I was looking for a specific book on on, Hosokawa Garcia, and I couldn't find it there actually at the time. But I did find another book, which was about Don Justo Takayama, blessed Don Justo Takayama and Hosokawa Garcia. And, while initially there just to, like, scan some pages for use for that Wikipedia article and for for this account, I started thinking about, you know you know, this book is out of print. I have access to it. I'm already scanning the book.

Maybe I could look into whether the copyright has expired or not and whether I could republish this book, to make it more widely available. And it is a good book. I I didn't write it, obviously. It's, it is a very good sort of, a little bit more in-depth introduction to these two two Catholic figures in the Catholic mission in Japan. And so, eventually, I I did decide to sort of scan the book, correct it for errors, turn it into, like, a a a professional document that that to that that can be used for for printing books.

And I I did put it out to print. There's multiple mishaps with that. I have a lot of faulty copies at home. But I also decided to put the book on the my website, for free because, you know, it it it's a book that I didn't write myself. This is a book that I didn't translate myself either.

It would be unfair to sort of put a a monetary block on that information, especially considering the whole point of this discount is to spread information and to spread, you know, awareness about this topic.

Catholic Frequency: I'd like to encourage people if they'd like to ask a question to please, you can feel free to, request the microphone. I take it that was your your first venture into, into publishing something. Was that, end up being a lot harder than you thought it would be?

Catholicism in East Asia: It was, it was I I wouldn't say it was very hard, but it was very tedious. Just scanning through the book, you know, reading through it multiple times to catch errors because the the the character recognition software is, still not perfect, which means that, it it it it it was it was it was fairly tedious, but, I think worth it in the end, definitely.

Catholic Frequency: I was scanning your, feed here. This is very wonderful. You had a post, I think it was yesterday, that this past Sunday, 30 catechumens in Beijing underwent prayer and preparation at a church there. Beautiful, looks like a neo gothic church. And, we remember all people that are going through RCIA or sometimes we're now calling it OCIA, all across the world and East Asia, but around the world to keep these people in prayer because a lot of spiritual attacks come upon catechumens and candidates for full communion in the church in these final final weeks.

The devil wants to get people off track and, so we keep keep everybody in prayer. What's been, like, the the reaction? I noticed that this is interesting. You follow zero people on x, but you have almost 30,000 followers. That's a pretty amazing number to have in in less than three years.

What kind of feedback do you get? Do you get, like, direct messages, people asking you questions, or a lot of comments on your posts?

Catholicism in East Asia: The way that I run this account is sort of sporadic in a sense that I'm not logged in, like, 100% of the time. I I just usually log in to make my posts, maybe to reply to a few comments, and then log out. So, while I do always appreciate comments, I think the best way to reach out to me and, like, ask a specific question would be DMs because that is something that it's, like, ever present, especially because, you know, with with a normal Twitter, or x notifications, that can get lost very easily. The reason why I don't really follow people is, because it's it's it's a it's sort of like a matter of impartiality that, I I I am I am a person who likes interaction on the Internet, and it's it's sort of to just stick to the content. It's also a matter of, like, impersonality.

I don't I don't really like, that much talking about myself because, you know, the focus is on on on the content, on the on the topic.

Catholic Frequency: I love this piece of art. I think it was from a few weeks ago. It's just the one of Saint Joseph returning, from work to the holy family. They're in the snow, and there's a a beautiful artistic, depiction. It's always beautiful to see these in different cultures represented with the, cultural aesthetics.

Tell us about I know Pope Francis has really tried to get more cardinals from around the world and maybe less in the, you know, what they call the West, the industrialized nations, the G 8, all that kind of stuff. US has less cardinals than they've had in the past. And he's he's gone to the margins as he calls it. Right? He's I know he's appointed a cardinal from rural Guatemala, for example.

What about in in East Asia? Has the number of cardinals increased since pope Francis came to, lead the church, or is it about the same?

Catholicism in East Asia: Yes. There there have been certain, increases and even, I would say, historical increases, in the case of I I don't keep track of all of the cardinals currently in East Asia, but I know recently, recently is probably maybe not the best word, but, like, half a year ago, Mongolia got a cardinal, which is which is pretty significant. So, yes, there has been an increase of cardinals being appointed in East Asia, which is, I would say well, it is a generally good thing to have more representation from that part of the world. But, again, it it it's sort of I don't wanna get into my opinions, but it depends on on on the the bishop that is elevated whether that is a prudent decision or not.

Catholic Frequency: I certainly understand that. Absolutely. I just posted to the nest there at the top. This is a Chinese Catholic catechetical lithograph that, explains the origin the origin the doctrine of original sin. Again, another very beautiful piece of work that is, created to spread the faith.

I'm not sure what year of the year. I imagine this is got some, you know, many decades ago. How is the, Catholics in in that part of the world very dedicated to the blessed Virgin Mary as they are in other places? Or what would you say about that?

Catholicism in East Asia: I would say so. Yes. It is I I feel a universal, I I can't speak from very, very intimate experience, but from what I've seen, yes, there is, there is quite a bit of a devotion, the Virgin Mary, just just judging by, by the the frequency of of of of of mention. Again, I'm not I'm not very very well educated on that specific topic, the the specific devotions. But due to the situation in East Asia where where there is, China is a little bit of a different situation just because, with with with China, you see small percentages of of of the population being Catholic, but China is very, very, very populous.

A sort of similar situation to India where, India only has a small percentage of its population being Catholic, but it it it still is one of the countries with millions upon millions of Catholics. The situation from from what I've from what I've heard from from people that I trust, in Japan specifically is that, the church there is very small, but it is very the the the lady is very dedicated, in part because of that that smallness, that that that that that, it it's not the perfect word for term for it, but, like, minority status.

Catholic Frequency: Yeah. I think China is, like, what, 1,400,000,000 people or something and so ever. Even if one percent is Catholic, that's gonna be more Catholic Christians in China than many European countries. Right? Mhmm.

It's an amazing amazing statistic. I did a thread a while back, maybe last month. I'm sure you might have heard the story, but it's the story of the, atomic bomb that was dropped in Hiroshima And the Jesuit church that survived was about a mile, I think, from the blast site. And there was, I don't know, three or four priests there. They all survived and never had radiation sickness.

And they attributed it to the fact that they prayed the rosary

Catholicism in East Asia: Mhmm.

Catholic Frequency: Very faithfully every day. It's very, very beautiful story in a in in the middle of a tragic, tragic, horrible catastrophe. But, the church actually, not the roof, but the the rest of the, structure withstood. But I remember going to I've actually been to Hiroshima and, long time ago, I was not Catholic at the time. I was with a friend who was Catholic and they went off to actually see it, to see, you know, a church or something.

And, but I remember being surprised that, I was unaware that, you know, there were Catholics in Japan or whatever. There's a very beautiful history there. It really is. Like you say, people don't know about for whatever reason. So we're happy to see what you're doing to, and that's why I love following your account because it's unlike any account it's unlike any Catholic account I follow.

And I follow lots of Catholic accounts, and they're all wonderful and everything. But yours is a %, like, unique. You know, there's no I don't see the same things, you know. If I on the other accounts I follow, you know, I'll see the same images on multiple accounts and, you know, yours is, like, so unique. I think it's so wonderful what you're doing here, and I wanna encourage people to not just follow you if they're not following you now, but to repost your content and share it and ask questions in the comments.

And, if you have a big question, like you said, direct message you. But, when people comment on things, it helps more other more people see it because it's such a beautiful, fascinating history. And, we're just so happy to to get a chance to talk to you today. I'll give one final call for anybody who wants to request a microphone and and say anything. And, and I what about you, Jakub?

Are you a cradle Catholic, convert?

Catholicism in East Asia: Thank you for the kind words. And, yeah, I'm a cradle Catholic. Yeah.

Catholic Frequency: Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, I encourage people to go to your website, which is churchinAsia.com. Like you say, it's a sort of a supplement to the work you're doing here on the x social media platform, but they can get a copy of that book. They can download these, beautiful images you have, and look at some of the very interesting resources, that you have.

You have something on global Christian worship. You have little information on the history of Opus Day in Japan. You have, that looks interesting, the Japanese order of the mass, and, a lot of great great stuff. So I encourage people to, to take a look at that. So well, thank you for being here, and, I hope we can do this again.

You know, every every once in a while and just sorta talk about this so more people can, learn about Catholicism in East Asia.

Catholicism in East Asia: Yeah. Definitely. It's it's been a great honor. It's, I always appreciate the opportunity to talk about this.

Catholic Frequency: You've been listening to a discussion on Catholicism in East Asia on the Catholic Frequency podcast. Be sure to follow us on YouTube, and also follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcast. That way, you'll be notified every time we release a new episode. And you can check out a lot of resources on our Catholic frequency website at catholicfrequency.com.